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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
and I wanted to get your opinion on this. It's kind of strange, and something new to us.

First some history, Wyatt was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy about this time last year, and our vet put him on phenobarbitol. Not long thereafter (a few months, just before Wyatt's follow-up), she left the clinic and we couldn't find her (long story). The new vet at that clinic recommended we switch to potassium bromide, because phenobarb has some side effects and a maximum dose. KBR does not. While we thought about it, we found the first vet, who we much prefer, and took Wyatt back to her. She wanted to get Wyatt on the lowest dose of phenobarb possible, and we began backing down. No seizures, and we finally got him off altogether. That's been about four months ago, with no seizures or effects (that we are aware of).

Last night at about 4 am, we woke up to Doc barking like we'd never heard before, and found Wyatt on the floor, looking as if he'd just had a seizure. He wasn't actually seizing, but we think he was on the down side. He'd lost bladder control on the bed, but was able to jump down to the floor. That's odd in itself because the last time he was completely incapacitated. So we got him through it and made an appointment for him on Saturday (Doc was already scheduled for his shots anyway).

My questions to those of you that may have more experience are these:

Can stress (ie. new puppy) cause seizures?

Could it be from allergies? It seems odd to me that the seizures occured at almost exactly the same time of year. Wyatt has a few signs of allergies (sneezing, slightly runny nose, etc.) but has never been diagnosed with anything.

Does anyone have any experience with KBR vs. phenobarb? If Wyatt has to go back on meds, I think we'd prefer the KBR.

Thanks in advance for any help you all can provide, and sorry for the verbose post!! :freak:
 

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Very sorry to hear about Wyatt, this must be very worrying for you. Our first beagle,Bilbo, had seizures and we often wondered what brought them on. I dont think it can have anything to do with mental stress but cant be sure. I know that with Bilbo physical stress brought on a 'fit' and if we were going any distance we would carry her in a rucksack. Unfortunately seizures are quite common in beagles. We found in the early days that glucose helped cut a fit short. Bilbo would lick it off our hands like mad. Later medication helped a lot, I am not sure what she was on. Trust your vet, Bilbo lived to be 14 despite seizures, but died after a massive one.
 

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I balked at putting Spook on Phenobarbitol, but after the cluster seizures last Thanksgiving, decided I didn't want to chance that happening again. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif His vet has assured me that as long as we monitor the levels of Pheno in Spook's blood there shouldn't be any side effects. I will say that the vet is very strict about the testing and will not renew the prescription without it. To me, that's a good thing. :freak:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I do appreciate the replies. We're not really worried about the effects of phenobarb (my research shows they are very minimal), but the second vet we talked to seemed very concerned. I guess it scared us. Our first vet, the one we like and will continue to use, also checks bloodwork often. The advantage to phenobarb is that it comes in a pill, which is much easier to administer than the liquid KBR.

I thought the allergies was a stretch, but my analytical mind tends to see patterns and work that way. The stress part is also a bit of a stretch, since Doc's been around for two weeks now and they're getting along like champs (for the most part).

Guess we'll see what our vet says tomorrow morning! :thumbup:
 

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I'm afraid I don't really have any helpful information, but I have observed that Booker's (luckily infrequent) seizures do sometimes seem to be related to stress - for example the last one she had was the day we returned from a vacation last September(without her - and she has always had a great fear of being left behind) and another one was in the park when Moose slipped off his leash and escaped for four hours... we were definitely agitated as a result and she was too - and then she went right into a seizure.

I do think it is sweet that Doc woke you up - he definitely scores some points there for being a good little brother to Wyatt. Popcorn similarly woke me up a couple of months ago when Booker had been spectacularly sick all over her bed... they definitely take care of each other.
 

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Quote:Originally posted by BookerMoose:

I do think it is sweet that Doc woke you up - he definitely scores some points there for being a good little brother to Wyatt.
Add in the good points Wyatt scores for bringing Doc back when he wanders off, and it sounds like you have a couple of sweethearts who are really good brothers!!
Our late poodle Misty had seizures, but not often enough to put her on any medication. I never could figure out anything that caused them. Her first one happened right after her second round of puppy shots, I remember, so there could have been some stress involved. But other times there was nothing. We'd just walk into the room and she'd be having one. On the plus side, she lived so long she eventually outgrew them!! Sorry I can't be more help. Please give your boys a hug for me, and I hope you get some answers soon.
 

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Murphy has seizures from time to time. For the most part, he is med free. He would have one every 3-4 months. No meds were required. Then he started having 2-3 in a month, so we had him on Phenobarb for a short while. Recently, he off meds but did have a seizure 2-3 weeks ago.

Just be sure you let your vet know when they occur and take their advice seriously.

FYI: idiopathic means of unknown origin. Thats also what Murphy has. Stress can cause them, so can allergies to certain foods or chemicals. Murphy used to have them with 24 hours of returning home from vacation. We believe it was over activity. So it could be anything.
 

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I hope that Wyatt is doing better today!

My parents had dashounds when I was growing up. One had seizures the last 2 yrs of her life and she was on valium. She would have her worst ones when she was stressed the most (as in strangers in the house) and being that she was blind she always seemed to *feel the strangers* even when they were just outside.

Good luck and hope that Wyatt does better! And a huge :thumbup: to Doc!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks again everyone. After returning home today and playing with the boys, everyone seems to be fine. We think Wyatt's previous seizures were chemical/stress related, and the mention of allergies to certain chemicals reminded me that on our walk last night, we noticed that the grass in our green areas and just been sprayed. We're not sure what it was, so we kept the boys off of it, but I wonder if perhaps it wasn't in the air somehow? We'll talk to the vet tomorrow and let everyone know.

Thanks again, I can't tell you how much Amy and I (and Wyatt and Doc) love this board. Very refreshing to have a group to bounce ideas off of, share photos with, and realize that our beagle boys are normal after all! :biglaugh:
 

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Your mention of the spraying reminded me of the time a few years ago when Booker and then Moose both had seizures at the doggy daycare within a day of each other - just after they had sprayed the trees in the little parkette across the street that we go to every day. We definitely wondered about whether that was the cause... since it was weird that they had them so close together.
 

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My oldest Beagle, (Bailey) has had 2 seizures.... about 10 mo. apart...On the second one...my beagle (Bella) told us that Bailey was about to have a seizure...She was sooooo amazing .....My best advise is keep a journal of her seizures.....and you might figure out what is causing them...
 

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Wow! I hadn't heard much about this before joining here today. I think our Daisy has had seizures before too. I wasn't really sure what it was. Her eyes looked like they were about to pop out, and she was incompacitated from her front legs back, and shook like crazy. She tries to get up and hide when it happens, but she usually just ends up pulling herself in circles with her front legs, I hug her close to me and try to re-assure her she is ok until she finally stumbles up and goes right to the door to go out.
Is this what happens when they have an epileptic seizure? We have had her for about 7 months now (she was a rescued dog) and it has happened 3 times that we know of. Unless perhaps this is why she has peed on my son's bed??
 

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JM,

I replied to your post over at beagle-owner.com

Quote:It could have been a seizure, but it could also be a back issue. Get Daisy to a vet soon, like Monday. Explain ALL the symptoms to you vet. If its epilepsy, it can be controls with meds, but may not be necessary. It could also be a disc problem. If it is spinal, it needs to be dealt with immediately. Only a mylogram or MRI can verify this.
Murphy had a seizure last night. And thinking about it, he can not move at all. His eyes go wide, he does not blink, he shakes, arches his neck, and his front paws come up over his muzzle. But he does not drag himself around.

I remember that Murphy did have two "dragging" episodes that confused us. We thought is was him being stubborn. We found out later that he was temporarily paralyzed and recovered. The disks completely ruptures shortly after. Please make an appointment for Daisy to be checked for both seizures and a possible spinal problem (ruptured disk, IVDD, etc.) It is VERY important you get it diagnosed early if it is spinal. It means the difference between paralysis and a normal life.
 

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Just an FYI.. sometimes neurological seizures can be confused with heart related problems. A dog with heart issues can collapse and it APPEARS to look like a seizure, but to a vet, there are some major differences. Heart murmurs or poor blood flow can reduce oxygen levels in the brain that produce seizurelike episodes. In a case like this enalapril will usually help.

We use Phenobarb in the office, but but meds have pro/cons, and alot of how the vet you are seeing treats seizures depends on thier training and clinical experience. We test all animals on phenobarb twice yearly.
 

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Oh my goodness!!!! That is soo scary! Sorry I didn't see your reply at the other web site, I haven't been back there yet.

I will have to call the vet's the first thing tomorrow! I don't know what I would do if anything ever happened to my Daisy, she is my baby!! I will probably end up spending the rest of my night researching it now!

Thank you so much for the heads up about how serious this could be!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks again all. We spoke to the vet over the weekend, and she checked Wyatt out. There seems to be no other health issues with him, and she recommended keeping track of his seizures. If they occur more often, or become more violent, we'll remedicate. Until then, she wants to see how he does. I did mention the chemical on the grass, and she said to keep track of things like that would help (of course).

Basically, she said that as long as the seizures aren't occuring often, and aren't violent, Wyatt will be ok. In her opinion, there aren't any other issues creating his symptoms, which is good to know.
 

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Seizures are so unpredictable. I used to jot down everything that happened the days Spencer would have a seizure. It drove me nuts. Some people say it can be caused by allergies, weather changes, full moons, diet change, chemical products they are exposed to. I think that is why they call it idiopatic epilepsy.. No known cause.
Spencer used to have cluster seizures and when he was on Pheno it did nothing to stop his clusters each month and finally after being in the ER each month I decided to add Kbr (Potassium Bromide) to his Pheno and since then he has had no more seizures! He has had a focal seizure every once in awhile but no more grand mals. I did notice that when we gave him Heartguard he would have a focal seizure so I changed to Interceptor but he also had a reaction to that.
I hope all is going well for Wyatt now.
Please if you have anymore questions or concerns let us know!!!!
 
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