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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Is anyone aware of BFP (Beagle Freedom Project) they are based out of L.A. California and they are trying to rescue 38 beagles from a laboratory in Spain along with some other animals as well. If you click on their website if gives more details. The things they are doing to these poor souls daily are disgusting and disturbing and graphic, please be warned. We need to pull together and help them, they need us desperately. Please at least visit there website and see for yourself. God bless these souls and the folks who are trying to save them for these horrific acts of torture.
 

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Is anyone aware of BFP (Beagle Freedom Project) they are based out of L.A. California and they are trying to rescue 38 beagles from a laboratory in Spain along with some other animals as well. If you click on their website if gives more details. The things they are doing to these poor souls daily are disgusting and disturbing and graphic, please be warned. We need to pull together and help them, they need us desperately. Please at least visit there website and see for yourself. God bless these souls and the folks who are trying to save them for these horrific acts of torture.
BFP is a wonderful organization. Members are great Beagle Lovers I just discovered them last month. They have already rescued many poor test lab puppies. Keep spreading the word. Beagle puppies by the hundreds are being saved. Animal Cruelty is a crime and sickening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I completely agree with you. That is true, there is enough people on this site, that if we were to band together, could possibly make a difference. I only posted the Vivotecnia laboratory, because the BFP is currently working under the radar to get 38 beagles released to them and bring them to the USA. We should all do our part to advocate for these sweet souls and protect them from such horrific things.
 

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I have contacted a Senator about the U.S. situation.. He is the one that brought it to light. He wrote a bill to protect all animals. There is an issue w testing monkeys too. I havent heard a peep out of the ASPCA or the BFP.. they ask for donations but where is there voice on this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have seen postings in regards to the NIH from the BFP. I can't speak for the ASPCA, I couldn't agree with you more, that all animal testing needs to stop! The situation at the Vivotecnia laboratory is so disgusting and disturbing that I can only imagine that it's not the only laboratory doing this. I want to be involved and not just donate money, you know.
 

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BFP had a template letter on their site that one could use in writing to anyone in US gov't - Senators, Congress, (esp your own state reps) on the issue of animal cruelty and also sent one to NIH regarding Dr. Fauci's and knowledge of the tests on beagles (that were run OUTSIDE of the US). That one had an option to sign - BFP was collecting signatures of those of us outraged. The US while trying to minimize testing on animals has still not made it into a national law prohibiting animal testing. BFP expanded their rescue to all animals now, not just beagles.
 

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I completely agree with you. That is true, there is enough people on this site, that if we were to band together, could possibly make a difference. I only posted the Vivotecnia laboratory, because the BFP is currently working under the radar to get 38 beagles released to them and bring them to the USA. We should all do our part to advocate for these sweet souls and protect them from such horrific things.
Have you ever seen the YouTube video of the poorbeagle and what the CDC did to him? And about others that the US is continuing to do to them in testing labs in are permitted to do, because beagles don’t get mean, and they can no longer get chimpanzees so their using beagle, they breed them also. There are groups fighting this to stop the treatment of beagles as lab animals, we here in Wyoming just got 30 lab beagles that had never seen grass or sun light, they sometimes free them and give them away but the people that adopt them can never know what labs had them, but their phones are on speed dial to the vet, because some are deaf, or missing organs, eyes, can’t walk right, or sniff, or even understand you, because they put chemicals in them and up there noses so we can wear makeup and be around safe cleaning products. You should have seen these little beagle when they took them out of the carrier’s and their little paws touched that grass for the first time, it was awwwww some.
 

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Have you ever seen the YouTube video of the poorbeagle and what the CDC did to him? And about others that the US is continuing to do to them in testing labs in are permitted to do, because beagles don’t get mean, and they can no longer get chimpanzees so their using beagle, they breed them also. There are groups fighting this to stop the treatment of beagles as lab animals, we here in Wyoming just got 30 lab beagles that had never seen grass or sun light, they sometimes free them and give them away but the people that adopt them can never know what labs had them, but their phones are on speed dial to the vet, because some are deaf, or missing organs, eyes, can’t walk right, or sniff, or even understand you, because they put chemicals in them and up there noses so we can wear makeup and be around safe cleaning products. You should have seen these little beagle when they took them out of the carrier’s and their little paws touched that grass for the first time, it was awwwww some.
Another option is buy cruelty-free products (money sends clear messages). I pay special attention to cosmetics because I like wearing makeup. Cosmetics commonly test on bunnies, mostly skin and eye sensitivity tests. While there are many companies that are cruelty-free, pay attention to the parent company. Often a parent company tests on animals, but has several subsidiary brands that don't test (because they are using compounds that have already been tested on animals) so this is one way companies can market to the cruelty-free consumer. Buying from a subsidiary whose parent company tests on animals, your money is still supporting animal testing. Also, any company that sells products in China is not cruelty-free. China still requires animal testing. China, due to it's size, is a big consumer of many products. It is a dilemma of how to determine human safety without animal testing. In the past there was no way to know but over the years it has been discovered that most animals are not good predictors of humans. Now there are computer model predictors, but this doesn't guarantee human safety or meet human safety requirements. I can understand the dilemma - a company must assure the consumer public a product is safe so is it ethical to test on humans first? For some, the answer is yes because human testing requires consent with knowledge that a product is still being investigated and there are unknown side effects (even death).

I'll get off my soapbox now!
 

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@allymcbeagle I also am as careful as possible about buying cruelty-free products. The parent company thing I don't always catch, but I do my best.

I always tried to keep it in mind (have had several pet rabbits) and then of course getting Xerxes too...just makes you all the more aware.

There is a beagle rescued from a lab in our complex - the owner got her a few months back now, her other beagle passed away last year :( The poor beagle from the lab is tiny, looks like a 3 month old puppy - but she is 1.5 years I think it is. Sweetest girl, shy, but who can blame her? All my dogs love her. Haven't seen her in awhile but my husband's been doing everything for the last 7 weeks (been unwell) so that is likely why.
 
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@allymcbeagle I also am as careful as possible about buying cruelty-free products. The parent company thing I don't always catch, but I do my best.

I always tried to keep it in mind (have had several pet rabbits) and then of course getting Xerxes too...just makes you all the more aware.

There is a beagle rescued from a lab in our complex - the owner got her a few months back now, her other beagle passed away last year :( The poor beagle from the lab is tiny, looks like a 3 month old puppy - but she is 1.5 years I think it is. Sweetest girl, shy, but who can blame her? All my dogs love her. Haven't seen her in awhile but my husband's been doing everything for the last 7 weeks (been unwell) so that is likely why.
Oh so sad about the size of the beagle. It takes a lot of effort and time to rehabilitate a beagle from all the trauma they've suffered but the good thing is most can recover and live out their lives with love and peace. Kudo's to your neighbor for taking this on! I looked into adopting a lab beagle a bit back but their requirement was adopting out only to cruelty-free and vegan homes. Because we are on prescription medicines, we were not qualified adopters. I can understand this point of view; but I am also concerned that people who could give a loving home are unable sometimes because of non-serious chronic health conditions requiring meds. Beagle Freedom Project now allows medications as an exception, so in time others may follow and I hope law reform and practicality will prevail.
 

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@allymcbeagle Oh wow. I take meds for a health condition too that I assume have been tested on animals (because what isn't) but I need to make sure I'm treated, it's not really an option. I have been through so many different medications trying to treat that if something works, well - I'm taking it. That's good to know though. I'm not sure how many similar organizations there are in Canada but now I'm curious about this.

I think if anyone can help that beagle girl in our complex it's her owner. She is so patient, so calm, and has beagle experience. We don't really know each other, but I can see what a good fit they are.
 

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@Nebuchadnezzar, I am so glad the right owner is available for the dog in your complex! Back on my soapbox from an educational perspective.

Health Canada still requires animal testing for medications to be approved and authorized for use in Canada (as does US. European Union is much better at this). Animal testing is used for any ingredient (chemical) in foods, medicines, devices and cosmetics. HC established Animal Care Committees to ensure the ethical treatment of animals. I haven't checked into enforcement yet. HC and US indicate until there is a proven model available they will continue to allow animal testing. And for some disease states, there may not be.

Ethical treatment is the subject of much discussion - some argue if it involves giving an animal an unknown substance to see if it lives or dies, causes internal injuries, changes how the animal's metabolism changes or external changes (irritations, skin conditions etc), it's not ethical. The closest models to humans is primates and pigs. Not all animal laboratories treat animals ethically, some animals are poorly handled. The attempt by many organizations is ensure good treatment but is a tube to get an animal to ingest or injecting an unknown substance good treatment? Food, cosmetic and pharmaceutical/biotech companies contract the work out to an animal laboratory. Before anything can be tested in humans, the pre-clinical phase is thoroughly testing a product or device in toxicology studies. In toxicology, animals are euthanized as the results are not only the pharmacological monitoring of the animal but examination of organs via autopsy. An LD 50 must be obtained -- the dose at which 50% of the animals die. Testing starts in rodents and then moves into other animals.

I didn't know about animal testing when I started my career some 40 years ago. I learned along the way. My prayer is that government agencies can invest in computer models that can mimic human systems and the use of animals can be discontinued. We need products to be safe. I am not an animal activist (I disagree with most activist methods - like breaking and entering) and prefer negotiation. Unfortunately the my left brain fights with my right brain on this topic.
 

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@allymcbeagle I don't disagree about the labs and testing - anything I've ever read has said similar. I wish I didn't have to take these medications, but unfortunately I do - sounds like you're in a similar boat.

I hope in the future things change, and they will develop new medications for me that aren't tested on animals but on computer models. I know there are doctors and university professors advocating for these changes, as well as animal advocates (I follow stuff like Physicians Committee on YouTube and it seems like more and more doctors are coming around to how unneccessary it is, for testing medications and for training doctors).

But medication - well, you don't always have options while treating conditions like you said.

But things like cosmetics? Soaps? Completely unnecessary. So many cleaning products make me worried too.

I am not a big make up person so it's generally not a huge issue for me, but recently I thought, heck, it's nice some times - but finding vegan and cruelty-free make up in a pharmacy is a challenge (plus your comments about parent companies often apply).

I found this brand (Elate Cosmetics) - made in Canada (so for me I like that), vegan, cruelty-free and you can get refills to put into stuff like compacts which are bamboo! The place I get it from is big on reducing plastic and single use items. We need to move to new laundry detergent next that's plastic and cruelty-free. Right now we use Tide...sigh. I can't wait until we finish our jug!

Elate Cosmetics

I get most of our stuff like shampoo from Lush - still on the lookout for a conditioner bar that works on thick wavy/curly - hair - Lush's haven't, I may as well not have bothered. The conditioner I have now is cruelty-free (it's a small company - I think - that I hope doesn't have ties to larger companies) but is in a plastic bottle.

That Pretty Clean Shop has refills on stuff like shampoo and conditioners, but they come in glass bottles near as I can tell, and stuff is always getting knocked off our bathtub sides so that seems like a very bad idea. My search continues!
 

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@allymcbeagle I don't disagree about the labs and testing - anything I've ever read has said similar. I wish I didn't have to take these medications, but unfortunately I do - sounds like you're in a similar boat.

I hope in the future things change, and they will develop new medications for me that aren't tested on animals but on computer models. I know there are doctors and university professors advocating for these changes, as well as animal advocates (I follow stuff like Physicians Committee on YouTube and it seems like more and more doctors are coming around to how unneccessary it is, for testing medications and for training doctors).

But medication - well, you don't always have options while treating conditions like you said.

But things like cosmetics? Soaps? Completely unnecessary. So many cleaning products make me worried too.

I am not a big make up person so it's generally not a huge issue for me, but recently I thought, heck, it's nice some times - but finding vegan and cruelty-free make up in a pharmacy is a challenge (plus your comments about parent companies often apply).

I found this brand (Elate Cosmetics) - made in Canada (so for me I like that), vegan, cruelty-free and you can get refills to put into stuff like compacts which are bamboo! The place I get it from is big on reducing plastic and single use items. We need to move to new laundry detergent next that's plastic and cruelty-free. Right now we use Tide...sigh. I can't wait until we finish our jug!

Elate Cosmetics

I get most of our stuff like shampoo from Lush - still on the lookout for a conditioner bar that works on thick wavy/curly - hair - Lush's haven't, I may as well not have bothered. The conditioner I have now is cruelty-free (it's a small company - I think - that I hope doesn't have ties to larger companies) but is in a plastic bottle.

That Pretty Clean Shop has refills on stuff like shampoo and conditioners, but they come in glass bottles near as I can tell, and stuff is always getting knocked off our bathtub sides so that seems like a very bad idea. My search continues!
I agree with medicines, there isn't an option except alternative medicine and as a scientist, I'm skeptical. But I may get there someday. I will keep hoping for regulatory reform.

Thanks for the news about Elate! I hadn't heard of them. Not sure if you can get Color Pop, Catrice, e.l.f. or Milani in Canada, they are drugstore priced and cruelty free.

Lush is great, they're a private company and so far have not sold off to any other company. We had one in our mall (but I haven't been for 2 years since the start of COVID, I've been doing mail order and end up sending back a lot because shades look so different on a monitor). I received a Lush gift cert for Xmas and haven't used it yet! I usually buy solid products so I don't have a liquids when I travel. It's usually when a big brand buys a smaller company that it sets up conflict for me.

I'm still using Gain for clothes, I have sensitive skin on my back and it doesn't make me itch. At least there are more cruelty free cleaners are popping up but expensive if trying to keep to a budget. We are not buying pesticides any more but unfortunately we had an ant infestation in the backyard coming into the house so had to have an exterminator.:(Nothing natural we tried worked.

We just have to love our beagles extra much!
 

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I didn't know you were a scientist! That's very cool!

Oh I hear you about alternative medicines. Nothing makes Toby's eye twitch as much as someone saying 'homeopathy' haha...I don't blame him.

My bestie is a scientist (conservation biologist back in school doing her PhD) and while I am definitely not, I like watching things about science and reading science news (quite literally Science News is a fave of mine as it's understandable for someone like me). Bestie sends me papers she's published and they're really interesting, though I don't quite get the statistics stuff. But it's enjoyable talking to her about her work.

I have heard about e.l.f...not the others. I will look. I've not seen them at our local pharmacy, but it is a small one.

Toby works next to a Lush so I send him. The smell in the store as a whole makes my eyes swim, though I'm fine with things individually. But they are great. Though - I tried using their deodorant - I can get cruelty-free stuff other places, but they have plastic packaging, so I wanted to try Lush for no packaging. Not sure why, but using the Lush deodorant I smelled worse using it than I had before if I didn't put on anything for days. It must've changed my body chemistry or something. They say it takes 30 days for your body 'to adjust', I waited around 40 days and at some point I couldn't take it any longer. I didn't know body odour like that was possible. And I've gone on two week canoe trips with no deodorant. So imagine!

Unfortunately we're heavily budgeted at the moment. I'm almost out of my shampoo bar (speaking of Lush) so Toby picked up some stuff from the same brand that makes my conditioner today (he had to go to the pharmacy to get some polysporin eye ointment because I noticed a small little circle on part of his sclera that was red at dinner tonight, I thought it was a burst vessel or something random, he went to look and came back and said 'That's where some dirty water Agis splashed in hit my eye on Wednesday! I hope it's not infected'. :rolleyes: It doesn't hurt and isn't itchy and since it's the weekend I said let's keep an eye (ha!) on it but you're getting at least polysporin for it and if it gets worse, you're going to the ER. Don't mess around with eyes, to me).
 
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It's definitely difficult to find cruelty-free and sustainable! I used Tom's of Maine for deodorant and they were bought by Colgate-Palmolive. I'm still using it as I haven't found a replacement yet and it works for me. The website ethical elephant does a good job with their identification of brands. Cruelty-free Kitty website doesn't pay attention to brand owners not being cruelty free so their recommendations are less useful for me. Milk Makeup (Sephora - might be avail via Sephora Canada website and their own website) launched a deodorant last year, but in a plastic container :( but it's $18 (gulp). Their packaging is made from post consumer materials and is recyclable - at least they're trying. The search continues,,,

With personal use soaps etc, I buy home-made products from local crafters. It's hit or miss with me for shampoos. I learned that my skin does not like anything with lavender oil. I have skin sensitivity to products with some essential oils. Those animals who already died for skin testing ingredients did so in vain for me, I get hives if I look at certain ingredients!

Hope Toby's eye gets better!!
 

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Thankfully his eye is fine now. I just sighed to myself.

I always used Tom's of Maine. It is a shame about getting bought. I always wonder if they see a greater demand for cruelty-free products if they'll head that way themselves. I don't know. It's a real shame.

We used to buy those soaps too. I have a dog friend in the US who ran (runs? I'm not on FB anymore and her site is not functional) a handmade soap company. Once our finances get a bit better we'll get back to that. Being sick for 9-odd weeks I'm ALMOST back to full-time hours (well we shall see how the rest of the week goes!) and that'll help hugely. I am relieved.

I am going to check out the ethical elephant site. That sounds great.
 

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Bobby Brown Cosmetics (cruelty-free) was bought (in 1995) by Estee Lauder; Bobby quit in 2016 over disagreements with them. She had a 25 year non-compete that ended 2 years ago and she started Jones Road Beauty, a clean, sustainable brand. They aren't' more expensive than her her original line is now under EL.

L'Oreal (one of my old-time favorite drugstore brands) is the largest cosmetic brand owning 500 other brands. They say they are cruelty free and quit animal testing in 1989 but "an exception could be made if regulatory authorities required it for safety or regulatory purposes.” China requires it for finished products (regulatory purposes for safety). I'm researching whether or not the products manufactured are the same products and those intended for China go through the extra testing or how that all works. No answers yet.

I'm sorry to hear you've been sick but glad you are on the mend. I hope Neb and Xerxes are taking good care of you!!
 
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