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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My boyfriend and I raising littermates. The original plan was to keep them together at his apartment until I could find my own place (I live with parents who won't allow me to have a dog atm). After doing much research (after getting the puppies), I've learned that keeping them together 100% of the time isn't a good idea because they bond better with each other than with us. We put them in their individual crates yesterday and placed the crates in separate rooms, and they howled most of the day.

From the research I've done, I've learned that they need to be kept separate and trained separately. The boy seems to suffer from a great deal of anxiety. Grayson hates his crate, and he howls A LOT. If I leave the kitchen just to get something, he freaks out.

I wonder if the anxiety is from the fact that we got them from a breeder, and they watched many people come and go during their very young lives. Quinn seems to do so much better than Grayson does. My poor boyfriend, Evan, is at his wit's end with the howling, even though it's only been day one.

We absolutely love our puppies and don't plan on trying to sell one to another person, but I'd LOVE any suggestions anyone has about how to make sure they're happy, healthy puppies.

In regards to crate training, I've also read a few different things. One side says to keep them in the crate except to potty and play if they potty. The other says to not keep them in the crate the whole time. Suggestions?

I look forward to sharing my daily experiences and photos with you all! Our puppies are so wonderful and adorable, and I look forward to having a beautiful dog who will be with me for a very long time!
 

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Welcome! Your puppies are adorable (I saw them in your introduction thread)!

Beagles, as a breed, are known to suffer from separation anxiety, so I am of the opinion that they do best in pairs, with someone around all the time, with another dog. That's just my opinion, though.

Dogs of the same age can bond closely (mine are 10 weeks apart and act like siblings), but I think as long as you have some devoted one-on-one time with the individual dogs, they will probably bond to humans just as or nearly as closely as they bond to one another.

My boyfriend and I got our boy dog first, and he was an only dog for his first 5 months with us. Then we adopted a girl dog to be a buddy to him and keep him from being lonely during the day while we were gone at work. He was a happy dog before, but I think his life was really enhanced by having a canine buddy. We crated them individually at first, but she was very unhappy with it and would howl for at least an hour before bed every night (she in her crate across the house, our boy dog and my boyfriend and me on the other side of the house.) She stopped when we began to crate them together in a large kennel.

She bonded very closely with our boy dog; it took her a while longer to bond with my boyfriend and me. I think that's because she was a pet store dog who spent 3 of the first 5 months of her life at the pet store in a display case. During that important socialization time, she had very limited human contact and was mostly around other dogs.

She has come around very nicely in the year and a half we've had her, though, and I've made sure to spend extra time on her training, take them as individuals to PetSmart/on walks/to the dog park, etc.

I think that you'll find if you spend time with the dogs (individually and with the both of them), but also keep them together to minimize their anxiety (and the behaviors that come with it, such as howling or destructive chewing), your dogs might be the happier for it, and that may make things easier during the first months of puppy ownership.

Some people have found it useful to look at a puppy socialization timeline to use as a guideline. You may have seen it in your research already! It's not totally set in stone, and your mileage may vary, but it might be helpful to take a look at:
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html

Ultimately, what's best for you, your boyfriend, and your puppies is up to you to decide. I hope that my experiences can be useful to you, though. Good luck, and keep us updated
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for your advice! The main reason why we decided to separate them was because we didn't want them to become so dependent on each other that they don't know how to live without each other. It got to a point where if I took one puppy out without the other, the other would freak out. It seems like if we get used to them being without each other, they may be better....everything is trial and error, right?

The original idea was to keep them together so they could keep each other company, but everything I've read says that is a bad idea because they tend to be more interested in each other than their humans.

The other reason we decided to separate them was because of their aggression toward each other. They play and fight, which I know is normal, but that is ALL they do when together. More recently, Evan saw Grayson snap at Quinn when she wanted to play with his toy, which really concerned him. I guess we're not really quite sure at which point it becomes not playing, but just plain meanness.

Thanks for the Developmental Stage link! I hadn't seen that before - very informative!

Thanks for the compliments. Evan picked them out, and I couldn't be more pleased with their coloring and looks!


--Steph
 

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Oh dear. I would say put them back together. You cant force affection. We got our two when they were six years old. They hadnt met before then but were inseperable from the moment they met. They adore us, we give them loads of our time and I cant imagine putting one of them in another room!Please try them together, beagles are pack animals. I take it you plan to have them neutered at a later stage?
 

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I'd also put them back together, keeping them like that seems like its very stressful on both of them. If your worried about them being affectionate towards you both, that shouldn't be a concern, it'll come in time, i've never met a beagle who didn't like people lol they want to be cuddled ALL the time lol, atleast the ones i've met. Let them be together, after a certain age i'd seperate them until you get them fixed since they are siblings you dont want inbreeding or your female to carry pups during the first heat as her body is still developing. Fixing them will also help behaviourly somewhat. Most dogs (keyword most, some dont change) tend to calm down after they get fixed. I'd also recommend you train them seprately. this will give you bonding time AND they wont be distracted with eachother.what i would do is both you and your boyfriend pick a dog and if (i highly recommend) you do a petsmart/petco puppy training class, to do it sepratly at either different petcos or just at different times.

Socialize as much as possible at this age, take them EVERYWHERE, introduce them to loud noises, kids, etc. etc. other dogs etc. alot of local rescues or shelters will have a dog socialization group where ppl bring their dogs and let them romp together etc. that would also be a great idea.

as to house breaking, well there's quite a few threads on that, i suggest using the search feature and looking at a few, we've had a big influx of pups lately so there are lots of tips posted up.
 

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I would also suggest putting them back together. We got our two when they were about 2yrs old. They had been found wandering together so we adopted both of them. When we first got them they were extremely attached to each other. We crated them together and even took them to the vet together. We very rarely separated them. But I think that after they realized that they had us to rely on, they didn't have to rely on each other as much. They are still bonded to each other, but they are also bonded with us.
Don't worry, it may take time but they will eventually bond with you, even if they're attached to each other the most in the beginning.
 

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Please put them back together. It's o.k. for them to love each other and be best buds, they will still love you too. There is no such thing as dogs being to close or being so close they don't bond with you. I don't know what you read but I would not say that was very good info. If you were raising birds then that theory sometimes holds true but not with dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That's VERY interesting that you guys say I should keep them together. I guess the separation thing is a good idea for other dogs, but it won't necessarily work for beagles. That's why I came here! I see that many of you have more than one. THAT helps a lot!

I think the greatest trial for us is that I am traveling back and forth between Northern California and Southern California. I left on Thursday and will be heading back down south to where Evan and the dogs are tomorrow. He's having a tough time on his own with them....

It seems that we will have to go and hang out with them separately at the same time, that way they don't get upset when we take one and not the other....
 

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Originally Posted By: Quinn&GraysonMy boyfriend and I raising littermates. The original plan was to keep them together at his apartment until I could find my own place (I live with parents who won't allow me to have a dog atm). After doing much research (after getting the puppies), I've learned that keeping them together 100% of the time isn't a good idea because they bond better with each other than with us. We put them in their individual crates yesterday and placed the crates in separate rooms, and they howled most of the day.
How long did you leave them crated for? Crate training should IMO be a gradual process. Baby puppies need to be taken out frequently to toilet, at least once to twice an hour, and they also need to spend time with you.

I use crating as a way of teaching pups to be able to be happy to be on their own. I start by crating them for short periods of 5-15 minutes in a seperate room to where I am and letting them out only when they are quiet. I increase the time as they become happier to be crated. I also teach them the 'in your crate' command. I also crate them over night and set my alarm to take them out to toilet several times throughout the night.

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From the research I've done, I've learned that they need to be kept separate and trained separately. The boy seems to suffer from a great deal of anxiety. Grayson hates his crate, and he howls A LOT. If I leave the kitchen just to get something, he freaks out.
At this age it's not seperation anxiety. Seperation anxiety is a very serious problem and true seperation anxiety is actually not as common as people think.

I don't know many pups that wouldn't howl or cry being crated all day. At this age, he's been used to being with his mum and litter mates and you've stuck him in a crate on his own - it is natural he is going to get lonely and bored!

At this age everything is still unfamiliar and new. It's also quite typical for puppies to cry to get their own way, like throwing a 'puppy tantrum' - my beagle was terrible for these, but they had absolutely nothing to do with seperation anxiety. Try crating him in shorter incriments. Reward him for going in his crate and let him out only when he is quiet - but don't keep him in there to start with for more than 15 minutes or so.

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We absolutely love our puppies and don't plan on trying to sell one to another person, but I'd LOVE any suggestions anyone has about how to make sure they're happy, healthy puppies.
Unfortunately raising two puppies together is not always a good idea. It can be done, but it is a lot of work and will take a lot of commitment from you to raise two happy, well adjusted dogs. I'm sure with the right commitment, time and patience you will be able to do it, but don't under estimate the work it will involve - it will be worth it in the end though!


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In regards to crate training, I've also read a few different things. One side says to keep them in the crate except to potty and play if they potty. The other says to not keep them in the crate the whole time. Suggestions?
As you can probably tell from my post I am completely against crate training all day. There is absolutely no need for it. You want to use the crate to teach your pup it's a nice, comfortable safe place and use it to train them to be able to be on their own - but there is a lot more you should be doing with your pup that you will miss out on if you crate them all day.

Puppies need one on one training with you, several times throughout the day. They need to be socialised to as many new and positive experiences as possible - you can't do this if they are being crated 24/7 and only being taken out to toilet. Crates are very useful tools but locking a pup in a crate all day except for toilet time is not a way I would crate train.



ETA: From a training perspective IMO it is very important that puppies can learn to be on their own. There will be times that you need to seperate them and trust me, they will absolutely howl the house down if they aren't used to spending time on their own or being seperated. If you crate them together, ensure that you are also doing one on one training with them - keep one in the crate while you take the other out and vice versa. You don't want to raise dogs that cannot do things seperate of each other and bond more together than they do to you.
 

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Originally Posted By: Beagle MomPlease put them back together. It's o.k. for them to love each other and be best buds, they will still love you too. There is no such thing as dogs being to close or being so close they don't bond with you. I don't know what you read but I would not say that was very good info. If you were raising birds then that theory sometimes holds true but not with dogs.
I've actually seen cases where this has happened, so it does exist.

Two dogs were raised together and could not be seperated from each other without one becoming hysterical that it was being seperated. They could not function easily on their own and had more desire to be with each other than they did with the owner.


ETA: The dogs may still have a slight bond with the owner, but it was no where near as strong as the bond they had together. I personally prefer my dogs to see me as the number one, the pack leader, the one that they are bonded to the most. Some people may not want that and that's ok, it is only when the two dogs become so dependant on each other that it starts to create behaviourial problems that it becomes a serious issue.
 

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I would definately advise you to not use the crate all day..only for sleeping and when you're out. We leave Rocky's crate open and when he first came to us if he looked ready for a puppy nap then I would direct him to the crate and tell him go bed. He willingly naps in his crate now. When we leave for work/school he goes in his crate with two biscuits. When we go out where he can't come, he goes in his crate. Otherwise, he's free. If he's getting into too much, he's tethered to one of us, but we really try to keep him busy...there's 4 of us though, so that helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We're working on it with the puppies. Evan's been playing with them all day. We discussed him coming home at lunch every day so that we could each take our puppy and work with them separately. Quinn has never really had a problem with the crate. As soon as I put her in the crate, she will get comfortable and lie down to go to bed. The puppies seem much happier sleeping with each other right now. So far, they've been doing a really good job with socializing with people. They haven't really played with any other dogs yet, though they have encountered them. We're waiting for those 12 week shots before we start socializing them with other dogs.

I think, all in all, Evan's and my greatest concern is their bickering constantly. I told him that we need to spend more time with them - I think that's the greatest challenge we have. If they have each other to sleep beside, they have been able to sleep through the night without any need to potty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Evan is also concerned because when we take one out, the other poops or pees in the kitchen floor. We stick them in the crate immediately after so that we can clean it up and spray the Woolite on the floor, mostly. He also said that the next time they do it, they do it in the crate. That sounds like the ol' punishing only teaches them to do it when you're not looking.
 

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Originally Posted By: Quinn&GraysonEvan is also concerned because when we take one out, the other poops or pees in the kitchen floor. We stick them in the crate immediately after so that we can clean it up and spray the Woolite on the floor, mostly. He also said that the next time they do it, they do it in the crate. That sounds like the ol' punishing only teaches them to do it when you're not looking.
If they are toileting inside it's only because you haven't taken them out quick enough - sounds harsh I know, but at this age they have very little control over their bladder. It is up to you to teach them where they are supposed to toilet, the best way to do this is to take them out to toilet as often as possible so you can avoid any accidents. If they have an accident, ignore them, when they toilet where you want them to give them a treat and lots of praise.

The aim is to get them out of the crate before they need to toilet, you do not want them to toilet in the crate because they couldn't hold it any longer and didn't have a choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Got it. Thanks!


I think this is where the trouble with two comes in. If there are two hands to help with them so we can take then out together, it sure does help a good deal!

I can't wait until we can take them for walks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The biggest problem I find though is that when I do take them outside, all they do is chew on leaves and bushes or lick things off the ground or run around sniffing stuff or dive into the ivy or do whatever they want to EXCEPT go potty. I can spend literally an hour outside and they MIGHT go potty, but then when I take them inside and let them run around free, they stop and poo right on my carpet or in the kitchen or even in the crate. Somebody is going to tell me to take them where there is nothing that can distract them, somewhere that they wil get bored - not possible. These two could find ANYTHING to play with, even in the middle of an empty parking lot. So basically, they go outside and do everything BUT potty, then do it all once I take them back inside. My fault for not giving them enough time?


-Evan
 

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well honestly i'd take them out seprately if their playing with eachother, and i'd also differenciate between play time outside and potty time by giving them 5 minutes to potty if they dont take them inside if they go inside correct them and take them outside. They'll get it eventually, you've only had the pups a very short time, take it easy, patience is key.
 

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I have a 'schedule' for toileting.

I take them out every hour on the hour, when they wake up from a nap/sleep, after they've eaten, after they've had a drink, after they've played. If you catch them toileting inside wordlessly pick them up and put them outside, give them praise for being outside.

When you take them outside to toilet use a command like 'go wees' or 'toilet' or whatever you want to use so they learn to associate toileting with a command. When they toilet praise and say the command word i.e. 'good puppy, go wees!' and give them a treat for doing it in the right place. Eventually you will have a dog who toilets on command.

Toilet training can be tricky but it's all about patience and consistency.
 

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I have litter mates and when we brought them home I read the same things your did about how to do everything seperate. And I panicked...That is when I found BW and I posted (like you did) and someone answered me to let me know they had litter mates and everything would be OK.
Well the girls are now 3 and have grow wonderfully. We did crate them seperate, just so they had there own space. When we went to training we split them up in the room, the only thing I might do different there is take them on different nights. Its alot of ruuning around, but it would also work. Maggie had demodectic mange and everyother week would have to go to the vet for dips which was a day long thing,so they were seperated.
Now adays most nights they pick a bed and sleep there (I have teenagers) So they are not together 24/7. But if I take one for a walk seperate from the other the crying that goes on is unbearable. Plus like kids they have different personalities. My Jasmine is the Hunter. She patrols the back yard all the time. But Maggie is the one who would rather stay in the house than get her feet wet. Most days we have to push her outside to go.

Well I hope this helps you and enjoy them. Treat them like you have twins.... And they will Bond with you...Please ask your questions and hopefully someone will have the answers here...
Good Luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Originally Posted By: Sephlywell honestly i'd take them out seprately if their playing with eachother, and i'd also differenciate between play time outside and potty time by giving them 5 minutes to potty if they dont take them inside if they go inside correct them and take them outside. They'll get it eventually, you've only had the pups a very short time, take it easy, patience is key.
We're working on that. The problem is that when Evan would take one and leave the other, the other would still potty in the kitchen. I'm back with him, and it's been easier for both of us to spend time with them.

Originally Posted By: SmeagleI have a 'schedule' for toileting.

I take them out every hour on the hour, when they wake up from a nap/sleep, after they've eaten, after they've had a drink, after they've played. If you catch them toileting inside wordlessly pick them up and put them outside, give them praise for being outside.

When you take them outside to toilet use a command like 'go wees' or 'toilet' or whatever you want to use so they learn to associate toileting with a command. When they toilet praise and say the command word i.e. 'good puppy, go wees!' and give them a treat for doing it in the right place. Eventually you will have a dog who toilets on command.

Toilet training can be tricky but it's all about patience and consistency.
They seem to be catching on. Quinn seems to get the potty command - or so it seems. She wanders around, and if I tell her to go potty, she almost immediately does. One thing I've noticed about her is that she doesn't seem to care much for the treats or praising. She gets so much more distracted over everything around her...

Originally Posted By: pfrI have litter mates and when we brought them home I read the same things your did about how to do everything seperate. And I panicked...That is when I found BW and I posted (like you did) and someone answered me to let me know they had litter mates and everything would be OK.
Well the girls are now 3 and have grow wonderfully. We did crate them seperate, just so they had there own space. When we went to training we split them up in the room, the only thing I might do different there is take them on different nights. Its alot of ruuning around, but it would also work. Maggie had demodectic mange and everyother week would have to go to the vet for dips which was a day long thing,so they were seperated.
Now adays most nights they pick a bed and sleep there (I have teenagers) So they are not together 24/7. But if I take one for a walk seperate from the other the crying that goes on is unbearable. Plus like kids they have different personalities. My Jasmine is the Hunter. She patrols the back yard all the time. But Maggie is the one who would rather stay in the house than get her feet wet. Most days we have to push her outside to go.

Well I hope this helps you and enjoy them. Treat them like you have twins.... And they will Bond with you...Please ask your questions and hopefully someone will have the answers here...
Good Luck!!
Thanks for your advice! When I got home, Evan and I separated the puppies and I immediately noticed that Quinn whined and then sat in a corner and didn't really want to play with me until I ignored her. This concerned me and made me really want to separate them, as they seem to be so attached to each other that they can't stand being without one another already....and it's only going to get worse from there. I can almost feel it....

--Steph
 
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