[cobismom]

We've been looking for a beagle pup, as you might all know. Well, every beagle baby that we have looked at the breeder has said something to the affect of well, he's not show quality like that was a major problem. Today a friend who is at a dog show, called and said she had a beagle pup for us to look at, if we didn't mind a deformity...we'd never be able to show him. HUH?
I've never shown a dog before, and don't intend to...that's not why I have and love dogs. But anyway, this little guy is about a year old, immature (?) and has a short septum????? Can anyone help me out with immature and short septum? He is housebroke, but because of his deformities none of the show people have taken him home...he's a pet dog...and the problem with that is what?????? Anyway, she is e-mailing me more info on this little guy and the woman who owns him, her kennels and price ---- less than $100 if we are a good family.

So how important is it to any of you that your beagle pup be show quality...if you are just owning a beagle for a pet? AND if you know about immaturity or short septums, help me out.

thanks,

Cathy COBI's MOM

 

[Murphys Dad]

As for me, it makes absolutely no difference that Li'l Girl isn't show quality. Since I wouldn't show her even if she was, I can't think of a good reason for it to be important.

I have no idea what immature might mean, but am guessing that septum has something to do with with his nose. Doesn't seem like it'd be anything drastic.

Maybe this'll be the little brother that Cobi's been looking for. Keep us posted, and do let us know what the immaturity and septum things are.

 

[beaglesmom]

Cathy, I agree with Sandy - unless you're planning to show a dog, there is no reason to get a pet of show quality. My Chloe would never win any beagle beauty contests, but she's the best pet I could ever have. Show dogs are required to meet certain AKC standards. I only have one dog (and her daughter) from show lines - but I got her because there was something very vulnerable about her - tho both of her parents are show champions, Lottie could never be shown - she's entirely too shy - tho I've always felt some of her shyness was from abuse rather than genetics. You might want to just verify with your vet that the short septum isn't a major health problem - but I don't see that it would be anything major. Unless you're planning to show - there is no reason to get a show quality puppy. As far as I'm concerned, you don't need that for a pet. By the way, I do NOT show or do field trials - I don't have the time or money for that. But do enjoy each and every one of my babies.

 

[jassy]

Maggie is definitely not a show quality beagle but we think she is beautiful. I would want to give my vet a call and make sure that there is no medical issue associated with what they are calling a deformity.

 

[Murphys Dad]

Jersey isn't close to show quality at all. Heck, I don't even know for sure that she's pure Beagle. But it doesn't matter to me one bit. As long as he is healthy. I'd get specifics about what the deformities are and run them by your vet just to be sure they aren't major things that are going to impact the little guys quality of life.

 

[Smeagle]

It is common for breeders to rehome younger dogs that have finished growing and are not show quality, or older ex-show/breeding dogs. Often, these dogs are sold for the cost of desexing or a lot less than the price of a puppy.

As a pet you do not need the dog to be show quality - often the difference between pet quality dogs and show quality dogs is so small that only a breeder or showie would notice, the average pet owner will not be able to tell the difference.

For me, as a puppy buyer, it is important that my breeder is:
- Breeding to the breed standard
- Breeding with a goal in mind
- Breeds for a purpose i.e. to keep a show/breeding quality dog from the litter
- Supplies pedigree papers for ALL (not just show quality) dogs in the litter.
- Health tests breeding stock for breed specific issues i.e. hips and elbows.
- Interviews you, the puppy buyer, and asks you LOTS of questions to ascertain if you are a beagle savvy home

- Will provide you with support for the life time of your dogs (so is there to answer your questions and will take back dogs they've bred if they ever need to be rehomed).

Just wanted to add that whilst you are only looking for a pet quality dog, there should not be a lot of difference in quality in the littermates - that is why we love purebred dogs, because if the breeder is doing the right thing, then they are breeding predictable dogs that meet the breed standard (if that makes sense).

 

[Spencer's Mum]

For me, if you are going to a breeder, you need to make sure that they are a reputable breeder and not just a back yard breeder adding to the pet over population. People should not be breeding as a hobby or breeding because they love puppies or because their dogs are cute, they should be breeding to better the breed and to carry on chanpion blood lines (be it show or hunting dogs in a beagles case).

I have made the mistake before of buying froma BYB and I have said that any dog I get in the future will be a rescue.

That being said, obviously it is not important to me to have a show quality beagle. I don't know much about the deformities that you mentioned but as long as you are aware of that it actually means and know what to expect for the pup's future, then really only you can decide. I will see if I can find anything on google about them.

 

[bender29]

It doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I highly doubt Banjo is anywhere near show quality as he was bred for hunting purposes. I still think he's absolutely gorgeous though.

 

[zoeyspop]

Originally Posted By: Nick and BanjoIt doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I highly doubt Banjo is anywhere near show quality as he was bred for hunting purposes. I still think he's absolutely gorgeous though.

I find it interesting that beagles bred for hunting are so far removed from show beagles If the original template for the show beagle was to showcase the best qualities of a rabbit hound then why so differant now?

 

[bender29]

Originally Posted By: Joshua

Originally Posted By: Nick and BanjoIt doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I highly doubt Banjo is anywhere near show quality as he was bred for hunting purposes. I still think he's absolutely gorgeous though.

I find it interesting that beagles bred for hunting are so far removed from show beagles If the original template for the show beagle was to showcase the best qualities of a rabbit hound then why so differant now?

I have no idea if they are so far removed. I was just assuming. I'd imagine hunting dogs are bred for intelligence and senses over aesthetics.

 

[zoeyspop]

You are correct. They are bred for intelligance and senses overall but physical features are also taking into account. If you look at a Field Champion beagle or one that does'nt compete but just happens to be a great hunter its usually not even close to the breeds standard of the perfect beagle. Which makes me think the breed standard is simply wrong or was written to a specifice situation that did'nt take into account all variables that a beagle would face as a rabbit hound. BTW Banjo sure is a handsome hound

 

[beaglesmom]

I have mostly dogs from hunting lines - but Lottie is from a long line of show champions - the show dogs seem to be a little less vocal - they are generally softer and not quite so hyper. Which is why I decided to breed my Lottie with my little Tanna who is from a long line of field champs - the resulting pups, were, I think, the best of both. Bella is less wild than her sister, a gentler temperment, but with the stamina of the field lines. I doubt I'd be able to show her, even if I were into showing, but I think she's awfully pretty.

 

[Spencer's Mum]

Glenda, do you do all of the genetics testing on your dogs before breeding them?

 

[Lisa P]

Show quality doesn't matter to me unless I planned to show the dog. Honestly, most puppies that come from a well-bred litter are pet quality anyways.

However, responsible breeding which includes breeding for standard, health and temperament is VERY important to me and should be for everyone looking to purchase any breed. Beagles are a very over bred breed and come with a miriad of genetic issues. Some of which can be screened for, and others can only be known by a breeder that actually keeps track of their puppies once they are sold.

Breeding only dogs that have proved themselves with titles (in either conformation or a sport such as agility, tracking, ect.) is also a big thing for me.

I could go on and on as responsible breeding is very passionate subject of mine, but I'll just leave it in a nutshell.

 

[cobismom]

Well, I guess I got my education from this post. Still, I don't care that any of my pups have been show quality...they are in my home to share love, caring and energy. That's my show I guess.
As for the deformities, very well put, I'd take any dog to my vet before signing the papers..that's only smart. I do the same with my car, take it to my car guy, why wouldn't I a dog. So as soon as I talk to the breeder/owner and get the info....I'll be back to share more info on this little guy.

Oh, this breeder is very reputable. My friend met her at the dog show in Bismark, ND this weekend. Very good reputation from what she told me, so I am not worried about that part. My friend has been checking these people/breeders out for me since Chip's passing. It's good to have friends who know more than you sometimes.

Thanks for the input.
Cathy J

 

[Smeagle]

The breed standard was developed many, many decades ago when beagles were used for their original purpose... the breed standard is used as a guide to breed the best beagle possible, the recipe for a good working (and pet) dog.

The working/show debate is one that is a hot topic in many of today's breeds, but the basic rule still remains the same; a show dog that is a good example of the breed standard wise should be an equally good example of the breed working wise. Whether or not this can be put into practice depends on the breed (we don't still use staffies for dog fighting, for example, so we wouldn't test their original purpose) and of course, the breeder. A good breeder will show their dogs to prove they are a good example of the breed standard wise, because structure is VERY important in breeding (for health reasons and others) but will breed for drive, temperament, working ability etc too.

Working ability isn't just about structure, of course, it is a lot to do with temperament and the dog's drive - this depends on the lines it has come from. Naturally, strongly driven working lines are not always suitable for pet homes, we see this a lot in breeds like German Shepherd Dogs. However, show lines should still have drive, and natural breed instincts, just often not as strong as you get in working lines.

In many countries (incl. mine) where hunting isn't allowed anymore, breeders test their beagles drive and instinct in sports like lurecoursing. My beagle Daisy is a pedigree dog from show lines, but has proven her beagle instinct is still very effective and strong

I would never say the breed standard is wrong - it is how we have had the dogs we do for the last century or so. The breed standard is a guide for conformation, temperament and structure... there will always be some difference between working and show lines but there should be no reason a show dog can't work

 

[AJollyBengali]

The official breed standard is only important to me insofar as it helps to determine if he was physically healthy. If a shortened septum affects quality of life, that's an issue. If not, I personally wouldn't mind since he'll be a house pet.

I'll admit that seeing Uno win at Westminster was the catalyst for my interest in Beagles. But I did several months of research to back up my initial feelings of awwww.

In the end, the breed's reputation for being good with kids (even though I'm single and don't have any!), smaller size and floppy ears were the biggest reasons I chose Oreo.

 

[Java]

I'm with you Cathy. I don't care much about the show-ability of dogs. I'm more concerned with health, temperament and along the same lines, personality. So what if Java has a slightly bendy tail? I love him all the same :-D

 

[Zookeeper]

Show matters not a bit to us. Matter of fact, a pedigree doesn't even matter to us, considering Duke is AKC and yet I've never turned his registration in (bad mommy!).

Violet is a rescue, so who knows if she's even 100% beagle. I don't care because my pets are family members, and since I never plan to show them, show quality makes no difference to us.

Now health issues do make a difference, but even the best show lines can have underlying issues, as my sister recently found out with her $1000 German Shepard that has a genetic eye defect and he's barely a year old.

 

[Smeagle]

Showing and pedigree matter hugely to me when choosing my breeder. It is important to me that my breeder shows their dogs to some degree so that a judge has looked over their animals and has proven that they are a good example of the breed. It's important to me that my breeder uses pedigrees to find the best dogs to breed with, the most compatible studs for their bitches etc. Pedigrees are very important for breeders to track their lines so they know what health issues to test for and what dogs would and wouldn't be compatible (i.e. mixing lines with well known recessive issues).

That's very unfortunate for your sister, Zookeeper, I wonder if that breeder did any health testing on her stock