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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a brief overview and then I need your suggestions. We adopted Molly from a shelter about 2 and 1/2 weeks ago. They know nothing of her background other than that they found her running in the steets, unspayed. She is about 2 years old and has been spayed in February.

We have two greyhounds so we decided to put a pen in the kitchen for Molly so that when we are not home, she can be in the pen but also with Jake & Andy who are baby-gated in the kitchen. She tends to go to the pen to go potty even if we are home. She had a few accidents in the house but most are in the pen on the papers. This leads me to believe that she was crated or kenneled in her previous home.

This is what we have done so far:

- she goes out on a regular schedule and after all meals
- I took some of the soiled papers and put them outside in her potty area so her scent is out there
- she gets praise and/or a treat if she potties outside

So........any other ideas? She just pee'd in the living room and hubby didn't yell but took her out on her lead. I want to be able to take the pen away and am hoping she can learn. I know beagles can be stubborn and I also have no clue about her past.

Thank you!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif
 

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It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Hopefully, Molly will learn the proper pottying habits from observing the 2 greyhounds. My Li'l Girl was adopted with an unknown background, too. I don't remember exactly how long it was before she became completely housebroken, but I'm thinking it might have been a month or so.
 

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The only other thing I can think of to try is a crate. If you think maybe Molly was crated, it might be worth a try to see if she is "good" in there. I say that because Toby came to me crate trained and he would never go potty in there, but everything else was free game! It was a gradual process to make him see that the rest of the house wasn't a bathroom!!! Also, Toby would actually get me up in the middle of the night to open his crate door for him, so I know he didn't hate it!!!! Who knows what Molly's previous situation was, a crate may scare her to death or it might have been her peaceful place in her previous home.


off topic, I have to ask, have you seen Molly Wear!!! It's dog collars named after a dog name Molly!!! I pass it along because I was so excited when I came across Lucky Dog collars since our new Beagle is named Lucky!! I think the website is http://www.mollywear.net if you want to check it out!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Molly's "pen" is really a crate for a huge dog, with the top taken off so its more like a pen. She potties in there during the day when we are at work, and she will go to that area to potty even if she is somewhere else in the house.

I will have to check out Molly Wear!
 

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If she likes going in the pen, maybe move the pen outside? LOL!!

That is a tough one.

Keep us posted on what works...I will be potty training in about a month!!
 

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Her age is on your side...she's mature enough to hold it and understand where to go potty. Just watch her like a hawk! That's all I've ever known that's foolproof, lol. She'll get it soon and just look at you like, "Geez, Mom, I peed outside an hour ago. I'm trying to watch American Idol."
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This morning she pee'd in her pen but pooped outside. I think she is getting the idea, but is just doing what she knows to do from her past. I kep telling my hubby that a healthy, 2 year old beagle doesn't need to go out as much as a 9 year old greyhound with kidney troubles!!
 

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I am having the same problem with my Kioko. After a solid month of NO progress...and me covered 24/7 in beagle pee...and having to wash the beagle twice a day and clean the crate up to 6 times per day and sitting for HOURS outside trying to get her to go only to have her steadfastly refuse to go outside only to have her come in and pee in her crate IMMEDIATELY upon re-entering the house...

I gave up.

I got rid of the crate training. I tied a leash to my waist to keep her with me so I could watch her and stopped making her get in that crate except to go to sleep at night or when I leave to run errands. Three days later...this beagle is getting it.

A month of diligent crate training, and nothing changed. She used that crate as a toilet and nothing more. She was NOT a candidate for crate training, and it sounds to me like your beagle is the same way. Kioko was confined in a crate or pen before she came to me...and I didn't get her till she was 7 months old. Her past treatment means that I cannot use the crate as a tool for housebreaking.

I'm keeping a blog about this as we go along so that I can see how things are progressing and maybe give hope to other people because NO ONE else is talking about this issue anywhere as far as articles and whatnot.

My puppy class leader, all the books, all the online articles, and the vast majority of the responses to people who present this problem on dog forums across the internet (I spent so many hours looking)...they all say that if you stick with it, a dog "will not go where he sleeps." Well that's just simply not the case with dogs who have spent lengthy periods in a crate/cage before coming to their forever homes. I actually got angry that I couldn't find ANYTHING published ANYWHERE about chronic and untrainable crate soiling or what to do about it. Wh

I eventually found two very short articles that discuss the anomaly of pet shop and shelter dogs who have this problem. Basically...you have to get rid of the crate-training. The crate is a stressor for them and it is also historically been the place they are supposed to eliminate. They had no choice and were never corrected or shown anything else. It is difficult to impossible to train a dog out of crate soiling if such a history is the case.

An alternate method of confinement that incorporates paper/piddle pad training can be very successful. Or, if you are able, keeping her tethered to you during the day can help you keep an eye on her behavior so that you know when she needs to be taken out. I highly recommend that, actually. It gives the dog security to be so close to you all day long, and Kioko has seriously become another dog altogether since I ditched that crate...I bet you money you'll see a decrease in stress if you can do that, too, and Molly will start to understand what you need from her, as well.

Don't give up. I actually cried...full-on wept...because I thought I was going to lose my dog, that she would never get it. I was exhausted from spending every waking moment worried about her eliminating.

But it only took three days. Once you find the magic formula for Molly, she will get it, too. Good thoughts to you and Miss Molly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
We had more progress today with the outside potty. I am totally not planning on crating her, she is just in the pen (which is large dog crate) while I am at work to keep her and my greys safe until they are all used to eachother. They are gated in the kitchen for 4 hours until I come home for lunch. So its not not like she has a long time to hold it.

I really just think that #1, she was in the kennel at the shelter and #2 she was crated prior to ending up at the shelter.

As Mrs Nix said, some dogs will soil in a crate no matter what the size if they have spent the majority of their time in one. My Jake (greyhound) was pretty much abandoned in a crate barely large enough for him to stand in, so he will relieve himself in any confined space (even the gated kitchen sometimes).

I praised Molly like crazy when she did a wee for me tonight!! Slowly I will take the pen away and see how she does, and then hopefully I will learn her signs that she needs to go.
 

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With respect...it is not universally true that a dog will refrain from soiling a pen. No matter the size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Checking back in on the subject today.

The crate is still up, and she still uses it, but has progressed to having some accidents on the runner rug too. She will always go potty outside for husband and NEVER for me. She comes back in the house and goes into her crate and goes.

After Mrs. Nix's wonderful post, I think this weekend when I am home enough with her, I will remove the crate and keep her by my side.

Its VERY frustrating and messy. I'm sure she is stressed too, not knowing what I want her to do. I even put a pee soaked towel in her outdoor potty area and she won't go for me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 

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I have to agree with both views on the crate - Miley is the first dog I've ever crated but it's mostly because she can be destructive - as I find that she will pee in the crate just as quickly as she'll pee on the floor. It's very frustrating, the only preventative for Miley is I have to get to her quick enough and take her outside.

I always did the leash thing with my past dogs but then again, I didn't work when I trained them either so it was easier.

Miley will pee outside and then be fine, but she refuses to hold it for a long period of time whether she's in the crate or out! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thsmiley_fistshake.gif
 

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We still use a crate since we both work during the day and she sleeps there at night. At first she just wasn't old enough to hold it so I would clean up pee every time I came home at lunch or at the end of the day. I was also met with the same "they won't pee where they sleep." Well if they can't hold it, I would rather her pee than something bad happen to her bladder or something. So my incentive was not not make the crate bigger until she stopped peeing in the small space she had (always "big" enough for her). I guess she liked the extra leg room and figured out that if she didn't pee, she got a bigger space. We also always had her out when we were home and took her outside on a schedule, sign or no sign. The part where we feel short was using the crate for punishment sometimes. Now she sees it more as a place to sleep when she has to. Only rarely will she willingly go in her crate, but never to take a nap. But as long as she sleeps there (i wish she would sleep through the night, but she has been getting thirsty around 2am for some reason) and doesn't mind being in there during the day, then thats all I care about.
 

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It's very frustrating. We're in week 3 or 4, and we've had the crate since day one, and he still pees and poops inside on a daily basis. Sometimes it's us, we don't speak dog, and what we misinterpret as playful barking is actually him telling us he needs to go. On the other hand, we've misinterpreted barks, thinking he needs to go, and he just plops down to smell the posies. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thsmiley_fistshake.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/exactly.gif

Neither of us is home enough to try the "tie him to us" thing. We bought a bell for him to ring, put it right at the door, and ring it every time we go out, but thats only been a few days, and he hasn't done anything with it yet.

I just now cleaned up a 4 spot poop, when i had just taken him out 10 minutes before it happened. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sign20.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Morning update:

Last night we took her pen down and cleaned the whole area really well. We were sure to take her out regularly and I kept her in my sight at all times. This morning she is gated in the kitchen with Jake and Andy - so we will see what happens when I go home for lunch.

Hopefully she didn't pee in the kitchen and will pee for me on the leash outside.

Wish us luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, when I got home for lunch yesterday no damage or accidents in the kitchen but she would not go for me outside either. Then at 4:00 I came home and she had gone PP on her bed, chewed the feeding stand etc. BUT, after 6 times in a row patiently taking her out, she went PP for me!!! I almost cried.

Around 6:30 pm she pee'd on the runner rug in the hallway.

Around 9:00 pm she PP'd outside for me again.

Today ----- came home at lunch to to accidents or damage. Took her out 3 times but nothing. Sooooooooo, we will see what 4:00 brings this time!! This time I left her more things to do and picked up the feeding stand.

I really think she is slowly getting it but my husband gets all crabby. I keep her in my sight at all times so she can't wander and pee.
 

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i know about the hubby getting crabby part /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thsmiley_fistshake.gif

I've been doing heavy duty boot camp with Miley in the evening and she's really coming around so my husband is getting better, but I swear they are worse then the dogs!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/tired.gif

Good luck. I'm glad you're seeing some improvement with Molly!!
 

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For Luigi's Parents:

Even if you're not home all day long with him, Luigi should never be allowed free roam in the house until he is reliably potty trained.

Whenever he is not in the crate, he needs to be tethered to you or to a piece of furniture in the room with you so that he cannot have accidents out of your sight.

Progress is made when you interrupt the bad behavior...and if you're making dinner in the kitchen while Luigi is peeing in the living room, you have no ability to correct him. He receives no reinforcement that peeing on the floor is bad EVERY time he does it.

Beagles are harder to house train than other breeds. In the worst cases, it can take up to a year for them to become reliable. Obviously, normal beagles don't take that long, but especially with a pup as young as Luigi you'll be looking at a long haul. Consistency is the key to it, and making it unpleasant for him EVERY time he goes in the wrong place is vital.

So...in my opinion, you should consider the tethering technique, even if you're not home all the time.

Kioko is STILL not reliable when out of my sight. She knows that if I'm not in the room, she will not get into trouble. However...with this method of keeping her with me whenever she is out of her crate, she has made serious progress. She now goes outside pretty much whenever I take her out (she never did that...and would WAIT until we came back in to go inside), and she no longer will eliminate in the house if I am in the room with her.

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Edited to add: About Crating Problems--We still have crate issues with Kioko. She does NOT hold her crate sacred as a pee-free zone, and she will still eliminate in her crate freely. That is why I started keeping her out of her crate whenever possible. The only times she goes in there are to sleep at night and when we aren't in the house (or when I want to shower or something without a beagle in there with me). If Luigi is soiling his crate and you can't seem to stop him (for WHATEVER reason...too many hours away from the house or he's got crate stress and thinks it's okay to go in there...whatever it is), then you can try getting him a larger crate that has enough room for his bed on one side and a potty pad on the other. This has worked for us to keep the beagle clean and relatively happy when she DOES have to be in her crate.
 
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