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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

I have a beagle who is 3 and a half years old. He was a rescue dog when I got him in Dec 07 and had behavioural issues when I gave him his chance. T o be honest I thought he would grow out of it with the right care,love and attention but it still happens now nearly 2 years later. For me it is more a need to prevent than cure the situation. Generally it doesn't happen that often but when it does it can hapen for a few days in a row.

To give you and idea of the situations I will list them below.

1. When he has done something bad

2. When he has something he shouldn't have

3. When he has done the toilet in the house

Generally I will give him a stern warning and maybe a slap on the nose while telling him he is a bad boy and then put him to bed to calm down. The issues in question are the reason why his original family sent him to the rescue centre but also mainly because he had also learned at somepoint to be this way and also bite if required which he generally resorts to trying to bite as the first option rather than warn first.

I have managed to deal with it through the experience of him biting me several times even although he knows I am boss and dealing with him breaking the skin everytime it happens.

Has anybody else had similar type issues and managed to resolve it or is it something I will have to live with as just his little quirk and continue down the prevention route

Thanks
 

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I don't think biting is a good thing. Have you tried taking him to obediance classes or talk to a behaviorist? Dogs bite out of fear normally, and it seems that whatever you are doing is not working. So, it wouldn't hurt to maybe stop by your local Petsmart and get some advise from their trainers. I have found them to be very helpful with my slight fear/aggressive lab/boxer mix. Now, to understand your story correctly...he will potty in the house, and then you pop him/tell him he was bad, and in this process he bites you?
 

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When we got Floppy, I was sure he had been returned to the pet store. He was very timid (and still is around strangers) and acted like he had been hit before (ducking when you went to pet him too quickly). He would also growl at us when trying to move him, and was possessive aver his treats and some toys (especially if they squeaked, until he successfully killed the squeaker). It got to the point where he would try to bite at us. Now this is going to seem really unorthodox, but after he started to do this, I would stick my hand in his mouth as he tried to bite me, placing my thumb on his tongue. Boy did this surprise him. After about the third time doing this, which really annoyed him, he stopped all together. He never did bite me, it just stopped him in his tracks and confused him. He still will growl at us to this day, mostly when the other dog is nearby, but he doesn't bite at us anymore.
You could try this technique, but it takes some amount of courage and quick reflexes.

Good luck!
 

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I'm about to go off to work so I'm in a hurry - I'll come back and post more tonight.

He does not know when he's done something bad. Slapping him on the nose is the WORST thing you can do in these situations - no wonder he is turning around and biting you, he's either defending himself or preempting you hitting and confronting him.

He doesn't know you are the boss - a leader is fair and consistent and does not need to bully, hit or slap their dogs to get them to comply or respect them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally Posted By: SmeagleI'm about to go off to work so I'm in a hurry - I'll come back and post more tonight.

He does not know when he's done something bad. Slapping him on the nose is the WORST thing you can do in these situations - no wonder he is turning around and biting you, he's either defending himself or preempting you hitting and confronting him.

He doesn't know you are the boss - a leader is fair and consistent and does not need to bully, hit or slap their dogs to get them to comply or respect them.
Smeagle I do not bully my dog inorder to get him to comply or respect me. Slap was probably the wrong word to use. It is more of a tap on the nose generally with one finger. I have found that this tends to stop the aggression and trying to bite because he very quickly realises he has been bad and tends to look away from me.

What i am trying to understand is why he will continually act in this manner and is unable to learn from previous instances through assocation. It is all fine and well him biting me but what I don't want is for him to bite a stranger. With regards to biting me it does not happen that often because I know the warning signs and situations where it would be likely to happen through experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally Posted By: AmberI don't think biting is a good thing. Have you tried taking him to obediance classes or talk to a behaviorist? Dogs bite out of fear normally, and it seems that whatever you are doing is not working. So, it wouldn't hurt to maybe stop by your local Petsmart and get some advise from their trainers. I have found them to be very helpful with my slight fear/aggressive lab/boxer mix. Now, to understand your story correctly...he will potty in the house, and then you pop him/tell him he was bad, and in this process he bites you?

He won't bite all the time but it will generally happen when it involves him getting into trouble or being moved for instance. It doesn't happen to me that often now because I now know the warning signs through experience. The strange thing is that although he might do this to me and sees me as his master he will go absolutely nuts if I go out and leave him at home with my partner or someone else to the extent he sits at the window watching for me and whining.

The above is partly why I can't get my head round him being aggressive towards me at times when he obviously loves me in this way.
 

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Originally Posted By: Bailey's Dad
Smeagle I do not bully my dog inorder to get him to comply or respect me. Slap was probably the wrong word to use. It is more of a tap on the nose generally with one finger. I have found that this tends to stop the aggression and trying to bite because he very quickly realises he has been bad and tends to look away from me.
But it's not stopping the behaviour if you consider that he still does it again down the track.

I would suggest that the aggression is symptomatic of a bigger problem.


Quote:
What i am trying to understand is why he will continually act in this manner and is unable to learn from previous instances through assocation. It is all fine and well him biting me but what I don't want is for him to bite a stranger. With regards to biting me it does not happen that often because I know the warning signs and situations where it would be likely to happen through experience.
Because it's not about each isolated incident, I would suggest it's more about your relationship with him - correcting him when he does the wrong thing is not fixing the big picture (if you get what I mean).

Quote:

He won't bite all the time but it will generally happen when it involves him getting into trouble or being moved for instance. It doesn't happen to me that often now because I now know the warning signs through experience. The strange thing is that although he might do this to me and sees me as his master he will go absolutely nuts if I go out and leave him at home with my partner or someone else to the extent he sits at the window watching for me and whining.
What exactly happens in those situations where he shows aggression because he's gotten into trouble? Does he show you aggression when you catch him or punish him or is it before then?

I would suggest that all these things are symptomatic of a leadership problem - IMO this dog does not view you as a leader whom he can respect and wants to obey. What sort of training do you do with him? How fair and consistent are you when it comes to setting boundaries, and maintaining them?

I would suggest you read the below article on the NILIF principle, and look at implementing it into your house ASAP:

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Quote:
The above is partly why I can't get my head round him being aggressive towards me at times when he obviously loves me in this way.
Dogs don't think like people in terms of not wanting to hurt you because they love you. Dogs live in the moment and are opportunistic, that is, they will do what works for them in a variety of situations. Snapping, biting, showing aggression is just one of the learned behaviours your dog has picked up as a way to deal with various situations.
 

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I think the tone in this discussion is starting to get a little out of the comfort zone. Let us remember that this is an open forum and although we all have different views and opinions, we must respect one another as well. I will just flag this as a warning to prevent this from getting nasty, and if I feel it starts to get out of hand again, I will freeze the topic.

Bailey's Dad: I do strongly believe that this is a pack leader situation. I think it would not hurt to talk to a trainer/behaviorist if you wish it to stop. That is all I am going to say. You may also Private Message me as well if you need to talk more.

Smeagle: I think you have this covered, dogs need leaders as well as companions.
 

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It does sound like a Pack leader situation. He wants to be the leader and so do you. Training with him will help alot. It helps you be a better leader, and helps him to learn to follow.

It really opened my eyes when I took Tucker in for training. The trainer was a good leader and the dogs instinctively knew that. She could just look at a dog and the dog would be submissive to her. She was never mean or anything like that, the dogs just knew that this was someone I want to follow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for your input on this matter and I will read the article you have posted the link for smeagle.

The issue in question has got far better from when I got bailey from the rescue centre. It stems from his previous family and although it still happens I would like to eradicate it completely if possible. I also have a lab called toby and I don't treat them any differant in this respect but the major differance is that I have had toby since 8 weeks old unlike bailey and I don't have any such issues with toby.

In a sense the way bailey acts at times reminds me of what a uncontrollable kid would be like when they don't get what they want. The aggression itself tends to start at the point of being punished for whatever he has done. The main issue is the fact his previous family let him pretty much do what he wants and quite simply I don't think he likes the fact that I won't allow it. All in all I think it is his way of trying to be dominant over me and anybody else and it is just how he deals with the situations.

Like I have said it doesn't happen anywhere near as much as it did in the beginning but it still occurs from time to time.
 

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I can relate with some of the stuff I read. Normally pepper is a great girl. There has been times she's gotten a bit aggressive. She'll growl I believe to intimidate and it's when you try to take something from her she shouldn't have. She doesn't do it with my husband, occasionally with me and more often with my daughter. The funny thing is she never does it with my grandaughter. My husband says you have to let her know who's in charge but when she does growl it is intimidating. That is my biggest problem with her. She is good with company and gets along when playing with other dogs. Pepper always lets us know when she wants to go out. No problem there. Maybe she can pick up on the fear me and my daughter get when she does growl. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
 

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Pepper, growling over objects/food is known as resource guarding.

More often than not dogs that resource guard do so because they are insecure. They do it from a lack of confidence; they are worried about you taking their object and feel the need to guard it.

I bet whenever she gets something she shouldn't have, you rush up to her or chase after her scolding her and telling her off for taking something she shouldn't - in reality she doesn't know she shouldn't take these things and I bet as soon as she sees you coming after her she thinks far out, I don't want to give this up!

I teach my dogs the give command and make releasing objects to me rewarding. I work on the idea that I want them to learn obeying me is awesome and really rewarding, and that whatever I have is always going to be better than what they have
Have you ever taught her a command like 'give'?
 

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I had training for my dog In my home. He was also being very dominant and did things like mounting (constantly!), nipping and even bit me to the point of having large bruises. He's mixed with some sort of hound so he weighs 45 lb.'s and is very strong. I was in tears from frustration sometimes!
First of all leave his leash on all the time and keep an eye on him at all times. If you need a break or you have to leave then crate him. Put some treats in there to coax him in. Get him to go in for 5 minutes of so while your home and leave the room and come back so he can get used to standing on his own two feet (so to speak) and he doesn't develop anxiety from you putting him in there and leaving for a long time every time he's in the crate. Part of my dogs problem was that he is so insecure he wanted to show everyone what a tough guy he was. Who knew!
You have to watch him at all times for awhile. When you see him start to poop give a verbal command to get him to stop, step on his leash and immeadiatly take him and a treat out side. As soon as he poops act like it is the event of a lifetime and pet him, talk nice to him and give him the treat. Accidents will happen for a little while so just keep some napkins handy and clean it up with out fuss. Also put him on a steady feeding and watering schedule. Food that goes in comes out about 8 hours later and water comes out about an hour and a half later. Punishing him for pooping in the house can come off as punishment for pooping at all and he will start holding it and have more accidents. You may have to undo some of this by taking him out very frequently at first cause he won't want you to see him poop for fear of being punished. Remember: lots of love for pooping outside everytime!
Teach him his basic commands and use them to tell him your boss. My dog must sit and wait for me to go through doors first. Use the leash and a choke training collar to stop some of the behaviors as well a simple, firm tug can help and the dog just knowing that you have that option calms them down, but it must be administered while the behavior is happening. Also put some coins in an empty water bottle and shake it loud if he is doing something undesirable. That way your not close enough for him to bite, but he learns a lesson anyway.
Never point at the dog. It drives them crazy and gives them an opportunity to bite the finger. If he does bite at your hand when you say no then just put two fingers in the back of his throat. Your not trying to hurt him, but he will gag a little and eventually stop.
Wear that dog out! Use training time to mentally wear him out, get him puzzle toys to keep him busy (frozen kongs and the buster block are great) and walk the heck out of him. If there is a fenced in area such as a tennis court or a dog park near by then take him there with a tennis ball and throw the ball till your arm is sore. Socialize him as well. Go where there are lots of people and animal smells so he learns how to deal with a variety of situations, just make sure you have the choke training collar on him and you get him to mind his manners around others.
Sorry this is so long guys, but I know the biting dog frustration all to well.
 

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Rocky used to have a lot of trouble with the resource guarding thing. He's much better than he used to be. We would also try and make it fun for him to give things to us. When he would have something like a toy or whatever, I would get really excited and get him to come to me and then I could take whatever it was he had without him getting upset. I still practice doing that with him too and he's much better.
 

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Smeagle, I read what you said and you're right. We DID yell and chase after her when she got ahold of things she shouldn't. She almost saw it as a game. I was having a problem with her taking some new throw pillows and running off with them. If we weren't around she made sure we saw that she had them, we'd react and she'd run. It was almost like HA HA look what I got. I came up with the idea not to react at all. Just ignored her. She would get the pillows and after no reaction would just drop them and lay down or get 1 of her own toys. Now she doesn't really pay attention to them at all. What a relief!
 

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Ill have to say...when you adopt a dog, youre adopting a lot of problems. Well, you have to think about how the dog was treated before YOU got him/her. My dog, George was abused. He was used as a hunting dog, and treated like dirt. He was left in a kennel all day, and all night, and never had any adequete food or water.

So now I have him. Hes generally an inside dog. He sleeps a lot, and has plenty of water, food, and love. Hes never cold and hes never too hot. But, he sometimes urinates in the house. He sometimes jumps up on the couch with muddy paws, or he sometimes chews on things that arent meant for him to chew on.

How I react, and how I reprimand him isnt going to be how his old owner did it. By hitting him, kicking him, and yelling. It doesnt work. Im currently trying to undo what somebody did to him for years. Its tough, and what he does makes me mad. But if you use POSITIVE REENFORCEMENT on your dog, he will respond much better. If your dog urinates on the carpet, in a stern calm voice tell him no. Thats IF you catch him in the act. If hes already done it forget about it. Clean it up and move on.

Your dog is biting you because hes scared of you. Hes been abused that way before. So hes going to defend himself. My dog doesnt bite me or even try because his spirit is so broken. After I catch him doing badly, he just cowers. So I gently lift his chin up to look me in the eye, and I talk to him like I would a child. I tell him No, that was bad. He knows what he has done. But you can not continue down the same path as the old owners have done.

Youll continue to ruin that dog.
 
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