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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, some of you that have been around a while know me pretty well, but for those that don't-here is a short background.
I currently have Harley a snoopy beagle mix with possibly a terrier or something, his daughter Maggie who is his identical half only female and crazy. Then about 2 months ago Chopper showed up. He is more full blooded beagle, tri colored, and was super thin and not taken care of. We took him in, and he got hit by a car not long after that. Took him to the vet, got his shots, etc and found out he either fractured or broke his pelvis, so was on bedrest for a while. He has done tremendously well.

Here are a few questions I have though-as I got Harley as a 5 1/2 wk old pup, and Maggie was born on my bathroom floor.

1. It is apparent that he was probably abused, or just generally not used to human affection. He shy's away when I try to pet him too much, etc, and when he gets in trouble he is hurt for hours. (emotionally of course) Do they ever get over this? I only tap his nose or a little tiny swat on the tush when he has an accident in the house or wont stop doing something. Generally he is a wonderful dog!!

2. My dogs sleep in bed with me most of the time. This is my choice. However, Chopper my new pup, has to be RIGHT IN MY FACE THEN. I have scratches on my upper chest (under my neck) where he has to be RIGHT THERE. If I try to just push him aside so I can move or get up-he is back in my face or right on me faster than I can get my hand back!!!I Hate to punish him-as this is the time he just loves to be near me and is a good snuggler and I want him to feel loved and wanted and worthy but I gotta get up to pee here chopper! time to move!! LOL

Well, anyhow-any more help would be appreciated. The other 2 have taken to him pretty well. Not long before he showed up we got Harley fixed so now Chopper is the only male not fixed here. Maggie is not either. But has not been in heat yet either.

Thanks in advance
Judi and the gang. (Harley 1 1/2, Maggie 9 months, and Chopper-approximately 1 yr)
also Baby Kitty who is 2 1/2 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 

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I don't know about rescues but I can tell you from having Abby that I have had to "correct" her she gets devastated. I noticed a long time ago that she responds much, much better to positive reinforcement than "punishment" or discipline.

As far as Chopper needing to be in your face Abby does that too. If she's sleeping in the bed with me most of the time she HAS to be touching me somehow...sometimes she pushes herself againist me so I'm stuck, uncomfortably, between a beagle a Béla but I hesistate to move so I don't disturb either one of them /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif and other times just being under the covers curled up by my feet is close enough for her.
 

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We have both of the same problems with Popcorn, although in bed she doesn't have to be right in my face - just touching me - but that is still enough since Moose is usually sleeping on my head!

As for the being emotionally hurt when disciplined, we say that Popcorn "melts" whenever we raise our voices even the slightest - sometimes with peeing as an added bonus (although that is getting better). Needless to say we use a lot more positive than negative reinforcement - and after she has been disciplined we try to give her extra affection to ensure she knows that she is still loved. I do think this is getting better over time, but remains a problem 1 1/2 years after we adopted her.

As for the sleeping arrangements, we only recently have been able to convince her to sleep in her own bed - Booker has always claimed the dog bed for herself so we decided to get a second one and Popcorn has decided that (most nights) she would actually prefer to sleep there. I don't know what bed options you have available and I certainly would have never thought Popcorn would prefer to sleep on her own - but surprisingly it worked for us so maybe give that a try!
 

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Try your very best not to swat your beagles. They do not respond very well to physical punishment and it destroys the trust you have built. If he has an accident that you are in the process of witnessing give him a low NO! and take him outside. If you didn't catch him in the act he won't remember what he is getting swatted for and will be very hurt for the punishment he didn't earn (in his mind). Swatting him only makes you feel better and like you did something to curb the behavior.
As for the bedtime behavior, Chopper is trying to dominate you and perhaps he should be sleeping in his own bed on the floor for a while until he learns his place. Touching you is good, standing on you is not.
 

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Li'l Girl has been with us for 7 years. She doesn't get swatted, tapped, or anything like that. When I chastise her with a loud voice, she cowers like she's afraid I'll physically beat her. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif She's gotten somewhat better over the years, but not a whole lot.

As for the being in my face, that isn't something she does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, just to clarify, I hope it didnt sound like I beat them or abuse them. I truly dont. The main thing is he still doesnt know his name, or at least saying his name means little to nothing to him even when I am looking right at him. Perhaps that is an act? The other 2 come running when I yell for them, or at least it catches their attention, but with Chopper its like I am just saying any other word in the dictionary.

Generally I am trying to get his attention is what I am saying. Hope that clarifys.

These are some good hints though. I have thought about the beds too-would be slightly expensive with 3 of them, and not much room either. We had thought about crate training but it was not for us or for our dogs.

Well, keep up the comments if you dont mind, I appreciate them!
Judi
 

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I do agree, slapping a dog even gently does not work well, especially with Beagles. Furthermore, a dog should never be punished for soiling the house. Dogs are naturally clean and if they are not, it is either because they have some kind of a problem, physical or emocional, which is what should be corrected, or becasue they have been raised in kennel where they had no choice but to soil their living quarters. Showing a dog how happy you are when they do well and giving them a cold shoulder when they don't achieve far more than disciplining the accident.
Secondly, Beagles do pout! tell them they have been bad and they give YOU the cold shoulder and will look miserable for hours. Given how smart they are, I sometimes wonder if it is not yet another trick of theres to go back to your good grace a lot faster. What funny little dogs they are!
Finally, often an adoptive family will assume that their rescue has been abused becasue he appears shy. In fact, it is seldom the case. Dogs who have never left their yard tend to be shy once outside the 4 walls he knows purely due to a lack of socialization. It is true also for kennel dogs. Socialization is a very important part in the formation of the temperament of a dog. If the dog is not exposed to unexpected noises, movement, colours, smell, if he is not introduced to various person, adult and children, it is not possible to expect that simply because we love him and walk him, the dog will not be surprised and overwhelmed by what we consider a "normal" life. This takes time, and for some dogs, longer than for others.
Genetics can also be an important factor in shyness. Just as if you breed agressive dogs you are likely to get aggressive pups, breeding shy dogs or dogs with less than stable temperament is likely to give you shy or unstable pups. The dog may have been very well treated in his previous home and yet, appears bit up each time a movement or a noise surprises him.

The good thing about all this is that shyness is shyness and no matter where it came from can be dealt with in a similar way.
There is a very good book called "Help for your Shy Dog" from Deborah Wood which I think is one of the best written guide on the subject.
 

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I totall agree with the above posters...
I met a girl the other day that has a new puppy and rubs his face in the urine in the house...I was horrified and just went off....anyway, i know that isnt the case with you...just had to vent on that one.

As far as him not wanting you to be too affectionate, I think this will take time..I cant imagine an unaffectionate beagle, but Im sure they are out there. Maybe by stopping the negative physical contact (if even a tap on the nose) Im sure it will get better over time.

As far as abused dogs, im starting to think Snoopy just wasnt socialized and I have a ? for Cheerio...
Can adult dogs who have never been socialized become socialized over time? We have had Snoopy for a year, every day, at least 4-6 times a day he walks on the elevator, through the lobby and is around people...he still runs away when someone walkes towards him (and esp behind us when we are walking outside) and in the elevator he hides behind me although I try to not let him do this....I dont let people pet him that he doesnt know (b/c he will pull out of his collar and if I hold him to let them pet him, he jumps through my arms.

Just curious..and I do have to book that you mentioned and it is very good.

Thanks
 

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Quote: Can adult dogs who have never been socialized become socialized over time?
Only to a certain degree. A dog that was not properly socialized during the critical phase as a puppy/young dog will never learn to accept certain things like a puppy that was socialized properly. You can certainly work on that to make it better, but the dog will never be quite as sound as a dog as he could have been, had he been properly socialized.

@ jdetmering

If you have the impression that Chopper was abused by his prior owners and that he is totally devistated from your "tapping" (whatever you may use it for), just don't do it anymore. There's no reason why a dog should get used to being handled in that sort of way, since it really isn't necessary. Correct his behavior with a stern "no", that should do in his case, if he is really so sensitive as he seems to be, and think of something else you can do to get his attention without having to physically touch him.

As for the sleeping next to your face... I don't agree with the statement that he is dominating you (that's an urban legend IMHO, just read the books from James O'Heare about that), he is probably just used to sleeping that way for some reason. Maybe he's cold at night and likes to sleep next to your face because it is warm? Have you tried tucking him in with his own blanket? I have to do that with Monty, otherwise he can't sleep (his face always has to be under something). Or maybe you can squeeze a pillow or blanket between him and your face, so that he can't scratch you while sleeping?

If nothing works and it really bothers you that he sleeps like that, I would also consider either letting him sleep in his own bed, or training him to sleep on special blanket at the end of your bed.

With time he may warm up a little more and enjoy being petted etc. They say that rescue dogs are really "at home" after being in their new family for about 6 months. I would really work on building his trust over time, I think that will help him become more affectionate.
 

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Under no circumstances did I think for a second that you are abusing your dogs. I think they are so lucky to have found a mommy that cares so much. It is just with certain breeds and temperments, physical punishment can make them fold and become resistant to training.
Dominance is not an urban legend and should be taken quite seriously. What happens when you move Chopper? Does he move right back? Does he get right in your face again? He probably won't need to sleep in his own bed forever as he will learn that he gets to sleep in the bed under your terms pretty quickly. 1 month of not being let on the couch and bed taught Bugsey that he was only going to be allowed the priviledge of sleeping and watching tv on the couch with us if he was going to behave. Now he only gets cranky if he get stepped on by one of the other 4 dogs in the bed. :eyes:
Your pup has probably been called to their master to be punished which is such a common problem with rescue dogs. It will appear that they don't know their names, but they probably have come to associate being called and coming with punishment. For some all it takes is once. Maybe make up a new word instead of the one you are using like instead of "come" you could use the word "Here". Also, don't call him unless you have a treat in your hand. When he does manage to approach you give him the treat and a "good boy". Soon he will associate "here" with treat time and come all the time. Once he is reliable you can ween him off the treats and just give him the praise. Soozie didn't know her name either when she came, but after a month of praise and treats she sure as hell did.
It is really hard and takes a lot of work to get an unsocialized dog to be stable. I am still working with Soozie on certain things a year later and she is getting better, but it has been a long arduous road.
 

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Yes, they do get over it but it takes time. The closest thing to physical punishment I've ever done to the Bagel was a nose hug but when I rescued him he was very timid and shy. The first time I raised my voice, he was running down the hall with a silk tie I had just removed and draped over a chair he dropped the tie and cowered in a corner. Needless to say I felt terrible, especially since it was the first time he had actually attempted to play and I went about four years without raising my voice at him. When I did again, it was just an exclamation of his name, he stopped, sat and looked at me intently, secure in his physical well being but aware I was concerned!

I know we have to make allowances for rescue baggage but if a rescue has a behavior you don’t want like insisting to be “in your face” shouldn’t be accepted. Not being personal but can you roll over so Chopper only has your back to cuddle when he does this?
 

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Nikki did this too. She would be all curled up in the
middle of my bed and she wouldn't move.

When I tried to move her she growled at me.
I didn't want to move her because I was afraid she
would bite me. I knew I had to move her but I also
had to find a way to hide my fear.

So I tossed a big soft thick quilt over her and picked
it all up with her in it. I remember she grumbled and
I just told her to "knock it off!" and then got into bed.
We didn't have any problem after that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
After watching him some more the last few days (been home sick with a nasty cold) I have come to a few more conclusions.
Actually, I think he is just trying to get my attention in bed, and keep away from the other 2 pups. Harley doesnt really care about him either way, they dont wrestle much, they both just want my attention. Maggie is the pup though-she is about 9 months old and still a PUPPY thru and thru. She is rambunctious, excited, and full of SH*T if you know what I mean! I actually now think that Chopper is just saying, "um mom, keep me away from that crazy panting girl!" heehehe

OK, so that isnt the only reason he is in my face and I know that. I have been able to, on a few occasions, move him out of the way and keep him there without breaking his heart. I have not tapped him or done anything but raise my voice when I have caught him having an accident or just not listening. Also I have tried the only saying his name with a treat in my hand so he learns it thing too, that is working pretty well.

The pups are enjoying their new fence we got them this weekend.Its not big enough, only 10 x 10 but its better than what they had, and with this warm weather we are having here they are really enjoying it. We will just need to get more panels for it when we can.

Thanks for the advice all:)
Judi and the gang
 

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Quote:Originally posted by Suz:
Nikki did this too. She would be all curled up in the
middle of my bed and she wouldn't move.

When I tried to move her she growled at me.
I didn't want to move her because I was afraid she
would bite me. I knew I had to move her but I also
had to find a way to hide my fear.
Henry stakes out his spot in our bed and growls when my husband tries to move him. He lets me move and bend him any way that I want to. The first time he growled at my husband, my husband got mad (hurt feelings, really). Now it's so routine...Jeff moves Henry, Henry lets out a growl without even opening his eyes. And that's it. We laugh now.
 

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in our bed, our Beags like to lick our feet...so sometimes, we put the sheet between us and them...they get the hint...
I do know about the scratching--Polly insists on standing on my feet all the time, and there's some nasty scratches.
 

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Quote:Originally posted by Pegasus:
Can adult dogs who have never been socialized become socialized over time?
Yes! The dog parks have been the best thing for Emma. When I 1st got her she was afraid of everything. People, other dogs, noises, etc. In the beginning she went to dog parks every weekend or every other weekend. She liked dogs more then people, but not by much. If a dog ran up to her she would cower & drop to the ground. She mostly stayed by herself or came by me. One of her 1st outings was Jersey’s b-day. Emma was very anti-social, but would watch the other dogs play. She gradually figured out how to interact with the other dogs. The 1st time a dog chased her she about had a heart attack. I am proud to say Emma is now the park terror. She initiates the chases now & loves to be chased. Sometimes someone gets too rough & rolls her. She sulks for a while, but soon gets over it.
 

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Quote:Originally posted by Pegasus:
As far as him not wanting you to be too affectionate, I think this will take time..I cant imagine an unaffectionate beagle, but Im sure they are out there.
One thing I have learned with Maggie is that "affectionate" can mean different things for different dogs. Maggie does not like me to hug or kiss her -- every hug or kiss is followed by a brisk head shake. After 11 years, this has not changed. However ... Maggie would want me to rub her belly or massage her entire body all day long. Maybe Harley equates affection with sleeping on you. Just a thought --
 

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Quote:One thing I have learned with Maggie is that "affectionate" can mean different things for different dogs.
I've noticed the same thing with Monty and Spencer.

Monty always wants to really snuggle up to me, I can hug him, give him tons of kisses, and even bite him (in an affectionate way of course) and he enjoys it all. He also loves to sit between my feet when I am doing stuff around the house or climb up on my lap when I am sitting anywhere.

Spencer, on the other hand, shys away from close physical contact for the most part. The only time that he gets really close is when we let him in our bed to cuddle, then he snuggles up against us. He also loves a good tummy rub. But if we start to want to hug him or anything like that he always takes a few steps back.

I think every dog just has his own definition of personal space and enjoys different forms of affection, depending on what they are used to.
 

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Well, It does not go smoothly sometimes! When Nibbler was introduced to Rufus for the first time..."They wanted to kill each other!" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif But Nibbler soon learned where he was in the "pecking order" when he was confronted by Goober! (Goober was only 8 yrs old) when Nibbler was adopted & had to spend some time with us to learn how to use a dog-door! :thumbup: Nibbler is a "true rescue" (without the details)...That has become as lovable as Duke!!!!(He has learned to respect the elder beags) & knows that Goober & Rufus get to eat before him! (But he gets to eat before "Homer-the huge")! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
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